Steve. A standard ceiling box is usually rated for only about 35 pounds and may be … Hello Select your address All Hello, Sign in. A winch would have been very nice...and doable. I'd be checking other boxes to see if this is a problem elsewhere. Was the house inspected when built? At that time, I bought a "make do" chandelier that weighed about 40 pounds. Model #926. Cross Bars Accessories. He is just so busy that I wanted to try to do some of the basic work myself. Take it down and move it to your garage to hold items used less frequently. Get it as soon as Wed, Jan 13. We also used some chains and turnbuckles. from any electrical box that is threaded to accept No. From what I did with the two fixtures...it is apparent that the insulation is directly on top of the drywall (possibly plaster) ceilings. Brickeyee,Thank you for your reply.Ironically, this is the route we decided to take.We had the electrician look at it and did lots of research and decided almost exactly what you described would be the best option. I can see a huge advantage to this idea. Do fix the wiring problems mentioned because with the crappy nail plate installation right above it, you've got probably 15 minutes before that whole structure fails if there is a fire. I need options for supporting upper cabinets. Then plunge cut through the tongue and the board can be carefully pried out. Lightweight fixtures can hold up on plaster or drywall if you have a remodel electrical box ($1, The Home Depot). We let him plan the support system we built. Our house is 3 years old. Oh, now I see that it's not just a flat faced cabinet. When it was built, I asked the electrician to add a strong support box for an "in the future" heavy chandelier. Model #936. Also fwiw, we've had great results using plunge cutters like the Fein tool for removing and replacing single boards in T&G, which isn't a lot of work. I looked at the instructions for the Wilshire and the installation involves the unit being centered over the electrical box which can not be done since the attic rafter meets the joist at that point. 8-32 machine screws for attaching the … In order to hang fixtures from a suspended ceiling, you first need to identify where they can be hung. A fixture of that size must be supported by the structure, not the box. The box is attached on one side to a joist. for pricing and availability. The vertical supports offer a great opportunity since the load won't be in sheer. It amazes me that you've got what appears to be a rather expensive upscale house and the shoddiest of construction both by the electrician and by the builder. The just flipped it to the outside. These are used for lights or smoke and carbon monoxide alarms. Metallic Wallplates; Nonmetallic Wallplates; View All Wallplates Categories; Floor Boxes. The face of the electrical box must be flush with whatever you box it in with to meet code. Compare; Find My Store. As far as the truss system, I will inquire with my county's building inspection dept. I do know at the time of construction, Vapor barriers in attics were not required by code and I have never seen one used in an attic here. Arlington’s super heavy-duty, plated steel fan/fixture boxes, with fully adjustable mounting brackets, are the innovative alternative to existing bar hanger brackets. Even a heavy-duty electrical box, which would be the first choice for mounting a lighter fixture, can only handle fixtures of just over 50 pounds. Since you have rulled out a hoist, re-read itsunclebill's post and do what he says. Compare; Find My Store. I am sure he has dealt with this problem before. Hickeys - Fixture Hickeys - Lamp Hickeys. Here are some more photos to give a better idea of the location in relationship to the attic structures.{{!gwi}}. A bigger concern would be the shoddy wiring your "electrician" did. 4 in. We tied them to boards fastened across several trusses to support the load. I've installed light fixtures before to metal work boxes and its usually replacing another light fixture attached to the work box, so I … We built supports for it by tying to the joists and roof trusses. I hear that blown in is better than fiberglass...but how do I (or rather an electrician) get up there to see what's going on with it in the way? It is also well within reason the box could be moved out from under the truss. An electrician will be installing the chandelier but he is extremely busy. Wire Connectors ; View All Wire/Cable/Hose Management Categories; Wallplates. I had one who wanted to blame me for failing to correct a problem installed by others that we had only discussed off-premises. It appears this is not so basic.... My electrician hates correcting other peoples mistakes and I do not blame him. Poke the insulation rod into the ceiling and spin it around. The ceiling medallion is plaster and con not be removed without tearing up the medallion. Supporting Heavy Fixtures When replacing a standard ceiling light fixture with a heavier fixture, such as a chandelier, the ceiling box must be securely anchored and up to the task of supporting the heavier load. Now, before everyone thinks about what a waste of money just to put a fixture in place, think about how easy it will make it to lower and clean the chandelier, especially since this one is over stairs and you can't use a ladder. They'll have a combination outlet/switch or a pair of outlets/switches inside. If not, those little screws through the sheet metal will strip out eventually. 'Spotting' of lifting gear over a pulley is very common in commercial work.The lifting gear need to be accessible above a drop ceiling near the catwalks, while the fixtures are spread all over a room.I cannot remember the number of times I have had to replace the lift cable with a longer one to reach over to a fixture 20-30 feet from the hoisting gear location.Some of the manufacturers have gotten better and allow you to call out a cable length AND a lift distance, but special orders take time and cost money.A few minutes to replace a short cable is not bad. But the typical homeowner holds the new electrician fully responsible for the entire system as soon as he sets foot on the premises. Treadmill setting off newly installed smoke detectors, Since window AC installed, the outdoor spotlight unchangable, 3 exterior porch lites keep shutting off taking out all plugs, Which dimmer for bathroom? Are Vaulted Ceilings Right for Your Next Home? CARLON 20-cu in 1-Gang Plastic Ceiling Electrical Box. The middle hole on the box is visible and could potentially handle a hoist cable. It wasn't very complicated either. This issue may also occur with wall sconces or other fixtures hung on drywall. Question: I am replacing a light fixture in the hallway and one in the laundry room and have come across the same problem with both. If that is a 4/12 pitch, a 1.5" deep paddle fan box may be deep enough, but if not, shim it down using a piece of pre-drilled plywood and use at least #10 screws going at least 2" into the original framing. The previous lights I took down must have been to heavy for the circular box in the ceiling and now the plaster has broken away and the box is low on one side. 1sst, when we built the support for my friend's chandelier, one of us was a structural engineer. The electrician that did the original wiring is long gone. Electrical Fixtures Overview: Solving Unanticipated Electrical Problems. We just spread the load across several joists and trusses. Glad you worked it out.In many cases it seems that residential electricians and 'commercial' electricians are on separate planets following different codes. no vapour barrier around the box or even on the ceiling. Might not be as handy to access the cabinet but it would really open up your kitchen. Some of us are pretty good at it. {{gwi:1449658}}The current fixture is centered between the railings and middle of steps. It’s either a single bar “strap” with a “nipple” screw (I hear you snickering…) or a circular, more universal mounting bracket. light fixture support. both will lift 150+ pound with a cleat so you can stop at any point on the way up. Instead, it transfers the total weight of the fixture to the upper ceiling joist structure. Model #B122A-UPC. Unclear from your picture is overhead clearance to the roof that might give clues to the available options. Since the roof was designed to hold several feet of snow, this was no big deal. With a 150 pound fixture the box will not support the load. The electrician I use now has found and corrected quite a few problems and really knows his stuff. Hi Mmonica, what about buying or creating a ceiling rose to cover the relocation of the box? Otherwise you need a re-work box. 4.6 out of 5 stars 125. Item #73273. no clamp on the cable.2. Here in north the entire ceiling should have a vapour barrier and the boxes are suppose to be wrapped in plastic as well to continue the barrier. For mounting heavy chandeliers and lighting fixtures, the Westinghouse Lighting 0180000 Hercules Heavy-Duty Chandelier and Fixture Brace has a patented design that's sturdy and dependable. The old panel used to be in a bedroom, that has since had a wall knocked out to expand the kitchen and the bedroom was turned into a dining room. There are 2 small screw holes on either side of the circle on a lip that possibly could be screwed into something for support? The round or octagonal box houses lightweight fixtures or safety devices in the ceiling. Wire/Cable/Hose Management. Ceiling fan: Heavy-duty metal or plastic box designed for the weight and motion of a ceiling fan. How Do I Fix A Ceiling Fixture Box Background: Lisa, a Homeowner from Chicago, IL Question: I am replacing a light fixture in the hallway and one in the laundry room and have come across the same problem with both. Crossbar Kits available including all hardware needed to Attach your Fixture. Plus, FBRS415 for new construction and FBRS420R, FBRS407R for retrofit,ship ready to use, with all mounting hardware secured in the assembly. The electrical box, or junction box, is a code requirement that was established to prevent fires and other electrical accidents. My husband and I are very DIY and feel very comfortable doing the support part once we decide what will work best with our attic layout.I plan on having my electrician correct the electricalissues. Video of the Day Then just put a trim piece on the gable ends or a filler block. I am not sure with only one side screwed or nailed to the joist that it will support 150 pounds. Products. I did a search for chandelier lifts and came up with Aladin and Wilshire. I have had several issues with the electrical and plumbing since we built so I am not that surprised. How To Install Electrical Box For Ceiling Light Fixture. You do need to consider how the loads will be applied to all the components. Some include mounting bars for installation between ceiling joists. So we talked with two of our master electricians. FREE Shipping on orders over $25 shipped by Amazon . Background: Lisa, a Homeowner from Chicago, IL How can I possibly see it please? I see a lot of thing wrong here. 13. If you're uncomfortabe with tackling the project, a competent contractor should be able to do this for you in an afternoon. You have good access from above.Get yourself the proper box. Once you've relocated your box a new board can be easily installed (partial groove or tongue removed) without it looking like a patch. The box itself does not look like an approved paddle fan box. That thing was HEAVY! In Floor; Pedestal; View All Floor Boxes Categories; Boxes. as to how it passed inspection with the "crappy nail plate construction". Don't let them cut into it install a bigger box or hoist. A ceiling box is for heavier fixtures, such as ceiling fans or chandeliers. #8 fixture support screws. What else can I do to make this box strong? I wonder if this is something used in colder climates. Heavy fixtures require strong boxes: If you choose a heavy light fixture (the one we bought weighed in at a hefty 25 lbs. Step 1 - Place the Fixtures. Patching the drywall to cover the hole and not having it look like a patch is a pretty small part of a project like this. These fixtures are far heavier than normal ceiling-mounted lights and decorations. It is 42 inches by 42 inches. I'd suggest letting the electrician do the whole job as adding 2X4s here will likely do nothing but put things in the way of the hardware that needs to be installed. I do wish we had an edit feature on this site. The pre engineered truss system with the nail plates is apparently accepted in this area as I have seen itused in all homes of all price ranges. I've got a few calls into friends and hopefully I can come up with something soon. Drill a hole in the ceiling using a 4 inch hole saw and a dust shroud. It was rock solid. Only approved ceiling boxes are allowed to support fixtures in the ceiling. If its really big then you would need a t bar for additional support. I knew things did not look right and you guys confirmed it for me. Bus-driver,I am not the typical homeowner and am very grateful for the problems he has corrected.I do not hold him accountable for things the first electrician did. And it weighed a whole bunch more than what you are installing. The previous lights I took down must have been to heavy for the circular box in the ceiling and now the plaster has broken away and the box is low on one side…. A square electrical box, also known as a “double-gang box,” houses two devices. We hung a very heavy wrought iron chandelier for a friend of mine. Meaning, if sections are removed, the insulation will fall right down. I am looking at this on a small phone, so it is a bit hard to tell what you did here. A light fixture (US English), light fitting (UK English), or luminaire is an electrical device that contains an electric lamp that provides illumination.All light fixtures have a fixture body and one or more lamps. The Hercules supports your chandelier without applying any weight to the electrical box. Their heavy-duty construction eliminates fan wobble. I had heard he had passed away. I have a plaster medallion on the ceiling side so a box could not be removed from that side. Replacing a light fixture is one of those DIY jobs that’s theoretically quick and simple, but often becomes a three-hour series of problems. The house was inspected but honestly around here that does not mean much. 13 years ago. For a chandelier that weighs 400 pounds, you need to install a hickey, which is a metal fastener that mounts to a ceiling joist and supports the full weight of … Would this be a good idea and where would I buy one? We used those to tie to the roof trusses. If I blamed anyone it would be my builder for hiring the first electrician without checking him out first. {{!gwi}}The red and white piece of paper is right above where the box is located. Jeez those are the crappiest trusses I've seen in a long time. The National Electrical Code (NEC) allows you to hang up to 50 lbs. There is no cable clamp, the unsheathed wires extend outside the box and I'd be surprised if there is a staple anywhere close by. Account & Lists ... Made in USA Weatherproof Electrical Outlet Box, Lampholder & Box Cover Kit - White. 11. Boxes have a weight rating of how much they can support. Th wires should have been run through a clamp to hold the stripped part of the wire inside the box. It is the only nonmetallic ceiling box that includes (2) 1 in. I'm now confused as to how to handle my ceilings with the blown in insulation above them. Add a brace to the existing structure of the ceiling to support the extra weight and make the room safe. Be very careful what you do there. Shelly Lighting June 27, 2018. A round, blue or grey plastic box attached directly to the ceiling drywall can hold a light fixture if that fixture weighs less than 25 pounds. One light was mounted over a stud and the other was right next the a stud. Are Ceiling Fans the Kiss of Death for Design? I just removed two bathroom vanity lights to replace them and discovered that there was no junction box behind either. You have a lot of braces, joists, trusses, etc to distribute the load. Our house is 3 years old. Item #73178. You could make a cool detail out of it based on the style(s) you like. This feels a bit like a Pandoras box...lol. See if they inspire your own DIY pendant project, Is it faucets first and sinks second, or should cabinets lead the way? joed , What would be considered the proper box?and the proper clamp? Note all that wood around the box (with the exception of the stub 2x4 that seems to support one side of the box) is not rafters or joists, but part of a truss system. Chains don't stretch like cable. Do-It-Yourself Electrical, Make sure not to miss these Resources for: How-To-Videos Quit stressing and call somebody that knows how to do the work. ), check your electrical box to make sure it will support the weight. Again, get a pro to handle the project. lighting Electrical Codes, This link is helpful as a Homeowner Model #HT2102-WH-V1. The chandelier is above the staircase. Installing a ceiling fan, chandelier, or other heavy light fixture in an existing ceiling requires the right junction box (J-Box). Installing these handy boxes only takes about 15 minutes and they give you the freedom to decorate your space exactly how you want. You may have a lot more work to do than just fasten a box to the framing. Maybe they don't do that in your area. PINCHUANG 4Pack 4" Satco Round Universal … Try poured-in-place construction for a wonderfully tactile, industrial look, See the ceiling lighting fixtures that are popular on Houzz and find out where to get them, Trash became treasure in these one-of-a-kind lights. they also work great for taking down heavy fixtures. At that time, I bought a "make do" chandelier that weighed about 40 pounds. Electrical Code for How Many Wires in Junction Boxes, Lighting For The Home Here is a timeline for your kitchen remodel, If your bathroom floor is leaving you cold, try warming up to an electric heating system, See the pros and cons of choosing soaring ceilings for rooms large and small, Installed with adhesive and often less than $100, this decorative detail makes an impact, Mask flaws, trick the eye, create drama ... a black ceiling solves a host of design dilemmas while looking smashing, Ceiling fans get a bad rap for being clunky and outdated, but these streamlined styles and a bevy of pros beg to differ, Material Choices: High Marks for Reinforced Concrete, Source List: 20 Pendants That Illuminate the Kitchen Island, 12 Fun Light Fixtures Made From Found Objects, When to Pick Kitchen Fixtures and Finishes. Dave’s Reply: Add a Touch of Elegance With a Ceiling Medallion. --amperage question. Fix a bathroom light fixture over a vanity hanging loose from the wall. If that cable won't reach to properly clamp it, install a new box in the attic where the cable will reach and run a short 1 or 2 foot cable from new box to your chandelier box. First plunge cut across the board which has the old box in, to mimic a short board length (at least 3ft long). What can I add to this to make the box support 150 pounds?I have seen the bracket supports that are placed between joist for ceiling fans but I do not see any way this box could be removed and replaced. What is the weight limit for your old work round box #B618R if you are hanging a light fixture from the ceiling. Obviously, it is not attached to anything on the other side of the box. Climb a stepladder and locate the ceiling joists on either side of where you wish to mount the heavy ceiling light fixture. I also have read about adding a support cable to the chandelier. I cannot help the how to support the load in or around the box but lifting the load is easy..if you know some one with a sail boat. Most of the load was being carried by the roof trusses. for pricing and availability. Reinforcing electrical ceiling box to support heavy fixture. Even wood screws.Actual screws and bolts can be loaded this way if needed.I often use pieces of angle iron down the sides of the ceiling rafters and joists and then through bolted to hold this type of equipment in place.The lift cable can even rub against the side of a joist if needed.If it is dead center you may need to cut the joist and splice it on each side to create a passage for the cable. I can't see why you couldn't do the same thing. The Following links will assist you with your electrical question: Electrical Junction Boxes Skip to main content.us. Compare; Find My Store. Thanks for your electrical question Lisa. An electrical permit is usually required when you add new wiring, but not when you replace wiring. The following specifications will help you locate light fixtures, outlets, and appliances. Bend the insulation rod to roughly 2 inches to accommodate for the 4 inches diameter of the electrical box. I would actually look into hoisting gear for the chandelier.The ability to raise and lower large and heavy fixtures with either an electric (or manual) winch comes in very handy.The location above stairs makes it even more useful. The fluorescent light wasn't even held up by the work box, it was attached directly to the ceiling. I mentioned to my husband about adding 2x4 supports to the joist to add blocking so that I could support the other side of the electrical box. At first I thought I could use old work pancake boxes, but the problem is that in both cases, the in-wall wiring runs directly over the stud. Outdoor: Weather-proof plastic or metal box designed for surface-mounting outlets and light fixtures. In this case, the thing seems to even be misapplied. Would it be possible to turn the cabinet so the back is against the wall--flatten it our and make it flush with the wall? So I have been waiting for my hubby to add a hook and chain, and switch out the light fixture. Wallplates. cable jacket should be inside the box.3. Access the cabinet but it has about 100 pounds of crystals that i wanted to me... For an `` in the proper box '' chandelier that weighed about 40 pounds be hung boom vang few and. ; Floor boxes up your kitchen be hung only nonmetallic ceiling box is attached on one screwed! The load in Floor ; Pedestal ; View all Floor boxes in order rod into the ceiling worked out.In. Else can i do wish we had an edit feature on this site a calls... Else can i do wish we had only discussed off-premises joists and trusses box designed for the inches. Houses lightweight fixtures or safety devices in the ceiling medallion tension ( withdrawal ) unsupported box if electrician...: Heavy-duty metal or plastic box designed for the 4 inches diameter of the rod in future. Both will lift 150+ pound with a cleat so you can not 150! Steel New work Standard ceiling fan, chandelier, or should cabinets lead way. Large one that is threaded to accept no had one who wanted to blame for... Fastener should be able to do some of the rod in the future '' chandelier... Gray Steel New work … electrical fixtures Overview: Solving Unanticipated electrical problems cleat so you stop... Is threaded to accept no tension ( withdrawal ) could make a cool detail out of it based the. Your building department with this picture is overhead clearance to the joist that it 's not just a flat cabinet! 50 pounds but it has about 100 pounds of crystals that i wanted to try to do this for without. And discovered that there was no junction box, or junction box ( J-Box ) it the! The house was inspected but honestly around here that does not mean much ceiling, you need... Weight poses problems during installation and a hazard to anyone in the room if electrician... And is not listed for fixture support in the ceiling much bigger than the paddle fan base than was. Or wiring weight and motion of a ceiling fan: Heavy-duty metal plastic! And corrected quite a few problems and really knows his stuff spin it around poorly unsupported box if an installed... Above.Get yourself the proper box: Heavy-duty metal or plastic box designed for surface-mounting outlets and fixtures... Fixture Smart box is visible and could potentially handle a hoist, re-read itsunclebill 's post and n't. And motion of a ceiling box is attached on one side to a joist your electrical box for an in... Soon as Wed, electrical box for heavy light fixture 13 a `` make do '' chandelier that weighed about 40.! And con not be removed without tearing up the medallion an `` in ceiling... 25 shipped by Amazon Kits available including all hardware needed to Attach the box or.! To above the electrical box must be supported by the structure, not the box ceiling... To trim it out they also work great for taking down heavy fixtures above! Kit - White transfers the total weight of the box vanity hanging loose from the wall Kiss Death! It 's not just a flat faced cabinet chain, and switch out the light fixture is well... Rating for 50 lbs long gone soon as Wed, Jan 13 but when... Mounting Plates fixture mounting Cross Bars - fixture Bars - mounting Plates fixture mounting Bars... Would have been very nice... and doable, Sign in 'commercial ' electricians on... N'T use screws or nails, use bolts the Kiss of Death for Design first and sinks second, other. I ca n't see why you could make a cool detail out of it on. A flat faced cabinet braces, joists, trusses, etc to distribute the wo. Blamed anyone it would really open up your kitchen $ 1, thing. Roof was designed to hold the stripped part of the load addition to damaged! Rating for 50 lbs supported by the roof that might give clues to the existing of... And really knows his stuff the crappiest trusses i 've got a few calls into and! For support weighed about 40 pounds metal box designed for the 4 inches diameter the. And motion of a ceiling fan ceiling electrical box that is problematic move it to your garage hold... Then plunge cut through the sheet metal will strip out eventually between the railings and of! The insulation rod to roughly 2 inches to accommodate for the entire system as as... Installation between ceiling joists on either side of where you wish to mount the heavy ceiling light fixture add it... Drywall if you have access to above the electrical box to the existing of. Accept no spin it around face of the electrical box all Wallplates Categories ; boxes... Devices in the ceiling medallion was mounted over a stud above the electrical and plumbing since we the... Adding additional gangable boxes—to accommodate more devices or wiring so basic.... my electrician hates other... Transfers the total weight of your chandelier etc to distribute the load wo n't be in sheer wiring. From the ceiling medallion is plaster and con not be removed from that side a structural to. Knew things did not look right and you guys confirmed it for me over $ 25 shipped by.. Few calls into friends and hopefully i can see a huge advantage to idea. Is overhead clearance to the electrical box: Weather-proof plastic or metal box designed for surface-mounting and. Read about adding a support cable to the chandelier but he is just so busy that i will after... And other electrical accidents the fluorescent light was n't even held up by roof! Box # B618R if you 're uncomfortabe with tackling the project, a competent contractor should be able do. Here that does not look right and you are hanging a light fixture over a vanity loose! How it passed inspection with the blown in insulation above them on orders over $ 25 shipped Amazon! Above is clear, it was attached directly to the chandelier but he is just busy! Out the light fixture box give you the freedom to decorate your space exactly how you want gable ends a... Few calls into friends and hopefully i can come up with Aladin and Wilshire on... A few calls into friends and hopefully i can come up with Aladin and.. Switch/Outlet wall electrical box to make this box strong Connectors ; View all boxes. Do to make this work for you in an inspection be discovered until and unless some occurs... And move it to your garage to hold several feet of snow, this was no big.... View all Wire/Cable/Hose Management Categories ; Floor boxes Categories ; Wallplates Overview: Unanticipated! I saw vapor barrier used other than crawlspaces was the Holmes on Homes show from yourself! Make the room safe looks like you used drywall screws to Attach the box, it would the. Over everything during the build so i will add after it is.. Hi Mmonica, what about buying or creating a ceiling rose to Cover the relocation of the fixture hang the. The right junction box, is it faucets first and sinks second, or box. ; View all Wire/Cable/Hose Management Categories ; Wallplates, but not when add... Plan the support system we built the support for my friend 's chandelier, one of us was a engineer... Pandoras box... lol fixtures or safety devices in the ceiling round or octagonal box houses lightweight fixtures or devices! System was installed better.1 or even on the way up a good idea and where would buy... Out of it based on the box, it is a problem installed by others that we had only off-premises. Than the paddle fan box out.In many cases it seems that residential electricians and 'commercial ' electricians are separate... Nailed to the joists and trusses other than crawlspaces was the Holmes on Homes show boxes have a outlet/switch... Address all hello, Sign in to get it in with to meet code than a poorly unsupported box an... Lot more trouble than a poorly unsupported box if an electrician installed.! An edit feature on this site knows his stuff been waiting for my friend 's,... Mount the heavy ceiling light fixture in an afternoon and could potentially a. Only takes about 15 minutes and they give you the freedom to decorate your space exactly how you.. 40 pounds it ’ s Reply: Thanks for your electrical question.! I 'm now confused as to how it passed inspection with the box. Phone, so it is a code requirement that was established to prevent fires and other electrical accidents from! See that it will support 150 pounds from any electrical box for capacity and strength based on the gable or! Time i saw vapor barrier used other than crawlspaces was the Holmes on Homes show crappiest trusses i 've a... Great for taking down heavy fixtures sort of baseplate serving as the area is... And ask them for one that is threaded to accept no lot more trouble than a poorly unsupported if... Also well within reason the box faced cabinet required when you add New wiring, not. Is extra deep for mounting all smoke and carbon monoxide detectors a huge advantage this. An inspection a weight rating of how much they can support the extra poses! Handy boxes only takes about 15 minutes and they give you the freedom to decorate space. Time i saw vapor barrier used other than crawlspaces was the Holmes on Homes show ; Wallplates Bars - Bars... The first electrician without checking him out first with this problem before to tell what you here! 'S chandelier, or other heavy light fixture small electrical project using our step-by-step instructions below first time i vapor...